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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:22 pm 
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Location: Brisbane (BNE), but regularly in SYD, MEL, ADL, PER
Airlines may be headed for more than $US600 million in weather-related losses as U.S. winter storms trigger the most flight cancellations since the government began tracking the data in 1987....

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:14 am 
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Location: Orlando
With technological advancement Government should come up with solutions for Airlines to cope up with adverse weather. There should be some instrument that will provide clear visibility to air planes, flights inspite of fog.

What about ground transportation, I believe these transportation providers are also being effected but to lesser extent.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:33 am 
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Location: YYZ
Actually, there is an instrument system to handle fog or very cloudy weather. It's called "Instrument Landing System" or ILS for short, and it lets pilots land safely in poor weather or at night if needed. What the scientists haven't found yet is how to control the winds, which even at a low reading of 30 or 35 knots will stop takeoffs and landings for the smaller aircraft such as ERJ's or Dash-8's, and at the much higher readings may even affect the larger aircraft's depatures or landings. Winter storms are often accompanied by high winds that often limit aircraft movements. Snow and ice can be handled to some degree, but the higher winds that may come with these storms make flying during those times difficult.

Jeff F.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:29 pm 
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Location: Brisbane (BNE), but regularly in SYD, MEL, ADL, PER
That's freaky, I actually had the Wikipedia page on ILS open when I read this, so here is some more background Rakhi.

Having said that, there are more advancements that are available, but very costly to implement, thus the cost effectiveness for airports are a place-by-place decision.

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Last edited by QF WP on Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:17 pm 
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Location: YYZ
Hi QF WP,

Re: The ILS systems. See how great minds think alike!!!

Jeff F.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:55 pm 
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Even separated by half the distance of the globe, Jeff F.!

I recall that additional systems for wind shear and microbursts (particularly at DFW) were part of many NTSB accident reports (recommendation from the 1985 Delta 191 crash), but the roll-out was going to take a long time. How far have they got?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:24 am 
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Location: YYZ
The DL 191 crash was a terrible tragedy caused by wind shear. At the time I think there was only very basic equipment to report it, and because of the controllers telling the pilots to slow down on their approach to DFW to keep from closing on aircraft in front of them, the DL was not going fast enough to have enough speed to carry them through the very heavy weather that they encounted at the last minute on their approach. In calm weather the slowdown wouldn't have affected the flight, but additional speed would've been needed to get through the storm and it was applied too late. Lots has been learned through the years since then, and I believe many improvements have been made in the reporting systems to alert flightcrews of the dangers ahead caused by microbursts and shears. Not being an expert on the matters, I just try to keep informed if possible, as I do enjoy flying, even with all the hassles it now entails. Not a pilot or connected to aviation (although my father was, so I guess it's in my blood), just an interested enthusiast, and a paying passenger since the early 1960's.

The DL crash and the EA 403 crash into the Everglades, were, to the best of my knowledge, the only two fatal crashes of the L-1011's, one of my favorite aircraft, now mostly out of service, with DL taking them off their schedule only a few years ago.

But so far, no one has been able to control the weather, so we have to make the best of it and try to deal with the problems it incurs in the safest possible manner.

Jeff F.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:52 am 
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Location: Brisbane (BNE), but regularly in SYD, MEL, ADL, PER
Jeff F., likewise I'm not a pilot but very long time flyer (been a QF FF since Feb 89) and first marriage was to a QF CSA in BNE, then went out with a number of Virgin Blue domestic shorthaul and QF short-haul FA's and last one was a long haul International FA, so always been around it.

Now living opposite an ex-Qatar pilot (he now works for Pacific Blue), currently rated for 734's and 738's; so always handy to talk through issues. Was really interested in his comments about the A380 SIN issue.

Also have been interested in Air Crash Investigation styled shows...not that it would be any use in an incident.

There are 5 crashes showing on the L1011 crash database, but you are correct that the 2 you mention were the only ones in the USA.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:50 am 
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Thanks QF WP,

Wasn't aware, or maybe had forgotten, about the other L-1011 accidents.
I do know that neither of the two U.S. accidents were caused by mechanical problems on the L-1011, unless you want to call a burned out bulb on the EA 403 a mechanical. That caused the flightdeck inattention to the fact that they'd disengaged the autopilot while tying to find out why they didn't get "three greens" with the gear down for landing in MIA, and while attempting to lower the gear by hand the plane descended into the Everglades. We've flown on that big sturdy bird many times from YYZ to both LAS and LGW when it was flown by Air Transat (Canadian airline) up here (both the -150 and -500 models), and from YYZ to MIA on EA in earlier times before it went belly up. Actually, I think Air Transat bought some of the EA L-1011's at that time.

Watching "Mayday" right now. Don't know if you can get it in your part of the world, but it's about air investigations (not always crashes, remember BA 009 and the volcano), and while it's a dramatized version of what happened, still it usually ends with some of the NTSB or other government's report of the causes, if known.

Jeff F.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:07 am 
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Location: Brisbane (BNE), but regularly in SYD, MEL, ADL, PER
Yes, that flight was the perfect example of the old addage of the chief pilot flies the plane and the co-pilot(s) do the radio/information feed to the pilot enabling them to fly the plane (like the current QF32 A380 SIN issue.)

MayDay (CA) = Air Emergency (USA) = Air Crash Investigation (elsewhere); so yes I am very familar with the show. I love listening to Greg Feith, the (now retired) NTSB investigator explain things....even I can understand them. I will always know what is a pitot tube now :o

Just hope never to be on an aircraft that has an issue...

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